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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
53
   |
Posted - 2016.02.22 08:17:34 -
[1] - Quote
You know its a good change when you generate this kind of response.
All free intel should go from this game.
You should be required to take more effort than looking at a contact to see if your target is online.
Being able to do so has been OP for a long time.
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 09:45:38 -
[2] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
....so their towers cannot be easily located.
Sounds like interesting and challenging gameplay.
A lot better than free-force fed intel.
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 11:35:40 -
[3] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Prey tell, how does one locate a logged off asset in a system? This should be good.
You see when you log off you're invisible, no trace, 100% completely unfindable, ever. So with power like that, why should there not be counterplay that allows people to even know that finding you is so much as possible?
I see you ducked the local question, thus I can only conclude you belong to the large crop of hypocrites.
Well, you actually have to take some effort as a group to find where players log off. There should be no easy-mode, "ya, my target just logged on" service in the game.
There is a locator service that tells you where someone is though I would say that mechanic is also broken. It, and no game mechanic, should be 100% accurate at all times. There should be some uncertainty and risk involved in trying discover a players location.
The locator service should give out accurate and inaccurate information that can't be gamed by having 20 players running it on the same player. It should give them all the same accurate and inaccurate information based upon random chance.
There should also be a risk that each time you run the locator service the target is notified and given the option to provide specific false information to maybe set their own trap for those who are trying to locate him.
Getting 100% risk-free and accurate intel should never exist in this game.
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 15:01:12 -
[4] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Threm wrote:
This is already existing and is called wormhole.
noone was talking about wormholes, as they have already no local display. Threm wrote:
This is still a sandbox with interaction to other players. There is no point in artificially make it more difficult by letting them only see what is in 14AU range around.
you know, CCP could also implement some sort of replacement for local, it would need to be less powerful however.
Maybe a delayed local with each ship having increased directional scan capability.
Certainly would help with the afk cloaker fallacy.
Getting rid of local without at least modifying some other game mechanics would be a bit harsh, but getting rid of local should be a distance goal.
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 15:04:05 -
[5] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Starrakatt wrote:Barrett Fruitcake wrote:Stuff about agents that should be inacurate and even harder to use. From years of experience, between the moment a target is located by the agent, the target has already moved around: There is inacurracy. From the moment you know the target's location (assuming it is in space and interactable with) and the time you moved there tp intercept, the target has moved even further from original location: There is inacurracy. Or logged off, by the time you get there. Or just logged in and decided to AFK cloak troll you for the next 10 hours, or stay docked. Asking an agent to locate someone isn't a guarranty of a kill, or even finding a target, or make it interactable. You spend your time to go grind standings. Then spend time to ask an agent. You spend ISK. You spend more time to get to location, and that with no guarranty you will actually have a target when you get there. Most users of locator agents will tell you that a vast majority of targets, when located, produce no concrete results in the end. Under teh current system I made watchlists of hundred of active players: Easily over 90% of location results doesn't result on anything. Inacurracy isn't needed. confirming all of this, given the inordinate amount of effort and grinding needed to gain access to a useful amount of agents they dont offer anywhere near enough with the changes inbound.
From 10 years of Null Sec and Low Sec Pvp experience, this is a bit overblown.
You just don't want to lose your free intel in order to keep it easy to track Supercapitals, war and gank targets. |
Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 15:09:56 -
[6] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Barrett Fruitcake wrote:
Getting rid of local without at least modifying some other game mechanics would be a bit harsh
which is exactly what we are saying about watch-lists.
Yeah, I don't agree.
Watch list is Stalkers-Online and spoon fed free intel.
Though If I had a choice I would say get completely rid of local and watch-lists, along with all map statistics related to jumps, kills, pod kills, and active cynos.
All of that should be only locally accessible, not spoon feed to lazy station bound alts. |
Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 15:18:10 -
[7] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Barrett Fruitcake wrote:
From 10 years of Null Sec and Low Sec Pvp experience, this is a bit overblown.
You just don't want to lose your free intel in order to keep it easy to track Supercapitals, war and gank targets.
i dont give two ****s about your supers , truly i don't. what i want is the ability to decern between someone who is actually playing the game and isnt before i waste 40 minuets looking for him. i dont need to see when he logs in but i would need to know if he is online when i make the decision to try and find him. this isnt about your supers , neither i nor any of my friends could conceivably care any less about what or when you do with them.
Not knowing if your quarry is around or not is part of the game.
You should never know for certainty that they are, you should be required to look.
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 15:37:31 -
[8] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
And yet after 10 years we're still tossing the baby out with the bathwater when in fact the actual problem is solvable without either one being needed!
Over dramatization of the issue. Automatically knowing if someone is in the game with a specific character from anywhere in the game is OP and needs to go.
I know all you guys want to keep padding your KBs with easy spoon fed kills, but really, this game shouldn't be about that. The discovery and the chase has always been more fun than the actual catch.
The discovery should not be automatic. The chase shouldn't be the race to the nearest locator agent, and the catch should be more than just a stat on your KB.
The watch list makes the discovery of prey automatic, the locator agent makes it simple, and with that it makes the catch trivial as compared to what it could be.
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 15:42:53 -
[9] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:i understand that and as i have said, i dont need to know when someone logs in , nor would i have an issue with putting a reasonable amount of effort in to find out if they are but flying out to check each and every one of them isnt feasible.
im not here saying change wasent needed but this change,
without complimentary balancing of other tools is a massive nerf to everyone who isnt hub/pipe humping
It sounds like your gameplay has developed around a flawed mechanic.
The discovery of any player should be done by a player, not given out by a NPC. A NPC could give clues but the actual discovery should be done by players.
If you have too many targets to track by the players in your organization, you should either reduce your targets or start recruiting more players, not ask for CCP to allow you to continue to rely on a flawed game mechanic.
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 18:02:51 -
[10] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:Barrett Fruitcake wrote:The discovery of any player should be done by a player, not given out by a NPC. A NPC could give clues but the actual discovery should be done by players.
If you have too many targets to track by the players in your organization, you should either reduce your targets or start recruiting more players, not ask for CCP to allow you to continue to rely on a flawed game mechanic. I am not sure I understand what you are saying there. Are you saying taht I should log my 2 accounts and, if I want to, say, catch you, I should visit every one EVE's 5000 odd system to see if you're somewhere, and that without knowing if you are even online? Unless you have moved behind me by jumping your ratting Super and then I will have to rake New Eden 2-3 time more, just to be sure. Edit: Or maybe, I want you not to find me, ever. All I have to do is sit in a dead-end and keep a scout next door.
A character hiding in a dead end system and never coming out isn't impacting the gameplay of others too much, nor is he gaining any real advantage by being there.
I question anyone who has to track and kill a specific character in any game.
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2016.02.23 04:03:56 -
[11] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:
The question was: How am I to find a player if I don't know he's online and have to rely on scouting most of New Eden to find him, not knowing if he's even online. If you are being honest, you will know it is not really possible.
Maybe with some hints from a locator Agent, you could narrow down his normal area of operation. A locator agent should never give you exact location with only time being the balancing factor against spoon fed intel. But it certainly could give you some information that needs to be evaluated.
Though it could be quite problematic if he is quite nomadic.
Hunting a specific character for in-game reasons should take some effort, by more than one player.
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2016.02.23 04:05:42 -
[12] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:I feel like there's a near one hundred percent chance that one or more players who insist that players in highsec PVP groups should "adapt" to watchlist changes will later comment, or have already commented in the past in a thread about highsec warfare that large, trade hub camping alliances are the scourge of the universe and need to be dealt with by CCP in some way.
Just saying, we did warn you.
We always warn you.
Yes, we should all prepare ourselves for the acting out of frustration of players who don't get their way, like every other time it has happened.
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy
Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 08:34:13 -
[13] - Quote
Organizations need to have players out there looking to get intel. Intel should not be delivered through NPC mechanics.
Needing to have players out there looking creates content that wouldn't be there if you could just use your watchlist. It creates more opportunity for Pvp and engages more players in the Corp or Alliance in intelligence operations.
The current watchlist reduces the opportunity for Pvp overall and allow for easy-mode intel gathering.
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